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Predestination Again
C.H. Cayce
March 15th 1910 The following letter from Brother W. H. Nosier was received some time ago, and we thought it was intended as a private letter, but we saw a request on the back of it to return it if not published. We wrote a letter in reply to the brother, but have decided to publish both. ELDER C. H. CAYCE: Dear Brother in Christ-I have been a member of the Primitive Baptist Church now for only about a year, having come from the Missionaries, and have been a subscriber for your paper about the same length of time, and had begun to like it fine. I also read with interest your debate with Penick. Today I received your proposition of paying for the PRIMITIVE in advance and getting the paper at one dollar a year, and was just about to send you two dollars to apply on same when I read your editorial in answer to Sister Georgia Townsend's letter, as published in THE PRIMITIVE BAPTIST of December 7. which caused a halt in my intention. I just thought if you are going to publish a paper and light on the ideas and doctrines of brethren, as you have done in this editorial, I just simply did not want the paper. It seems to toe that an editor who takes such an active part on such mooted questions as the absolute predestination of all things that come to pass or conditional time salvation, etc., etc., is entirely out of his place. At least, that is the way it looks to me. Do you know that there are as good, honest, brethren who believe, honestly, in the absolute predestination of all things as there are in the church anywhere? As for myself, I have remained neutral so far with regard to the subject, but from the facts I have gathered from the teachings of God's word I have about come to the conclusion that if God works all things after the counsel of His own will, then man has no will in the matter. And He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. Not only that, but He has a purpose in all He does. Then you break out with oh, horror of horrors at what you are pleased to term “the heathenish and infidel saying, whatever is, is right,” as if our Bible does not say “The God of all the earth will do right.” Of course there is a whole lot about what God does and why He does it that we do not understand, but is that an excuse for us saying that God does not work all things (and not only some things) after the counsel of His own will? I trow not. You yourself must admit that God did predestinate some of the most wicked things that ever come to pass on this earth-witness Pharaoh. “For this cause I have raised thee up;” and Joseph, “As for you, ye thought evil against me, but God meant it unto good to bring to pass as it is this day, to save much people alive;” and then the most atrocious crime ever committed in this world, crucifying of the Son of God. Will you dare say that was not predestinated? “Father, if it be possible let this cup pass, yet not my will but thine be done.” No, Brother Cayce, I don't fault you for what you believe on this great question; no, nor any other brother; but I do think you ought not write such strong editorials and take such strong sides against what brethren honestly believe. I do wish brethren could bear with one another and be charitable, for we are all fallible and liable to err. May God be with the dear brethren every where, is my prayer. W. H. NOSLER. OUR REPLY W. H. NOSLER: Dear Brother-Please pardon the long delay in writing you since we received yours of Dec. 15th. We have been away from home part of the time, and have been so busy with other matters that we have answered very few letters. If you do not take THE PRIMITIVE BAPTIST because we speak out plainly on what we deem fundamental points of doctrine, we will have to lose your name from the list. We would not shun what we believe to be the truth if it costs every subscriber on the list. The truth is what we want, paper or no paper. A man who will not speak out is not faithful to his trust. We are aware that there are some good honest brethren who believe in the predestination of all things that come to pass-good and evil alike-and so much the worse. If no good brethren were deceived by it we would not be so much concerned about the matter. But as this is the case we feel the responsibility resting upon us to speak out against it. God works all things, that He does work, after the counsel of His own will. If you will read (Jeremiah 7:31) and (Jeremiah 5) and (Jeremiah 32:35) you will find one thing God did not predestinate. It is true God always does His will, but we do not. God always does right, but men don't do right in committing murder, theft, rape, robbery and other crimes. You say you think we should not write such strong editorials and take such strong sides against what brethren honestly believe. According to that, if a brother honestly imbibes the rankest principles of Arminianism or Catholicism, we should not take a strong stand against it because the brother honestly believes it. Every mouth mustbe stopped from speaking against false doctrine, on that principle, and every pen laid aside and no writing be done against any false way. If it is right to oppose a false way at all, it is right to oppose it strongly. But why do you say we should not take a strong stand? Do you not tell us that God works everything? Then God worked this, and we had nothing whatever to do with it, for you say man has no will in the matter. Why not make your complaint to God? You say He works it all. According to your position, God absolutely and unconditionally predestinated from all eternity that we should write every word we did write, and we could not possibly have done otherwise. By the help of the Lord we expect to speak and write against every false way, as we understand it to be our duty, while the Lord spares our natural life. And may He lead all His children out of every false way, is our humble prayer. C.H.C.
The following letter from Brother W. H. Nosier was received some time ago, and we thought it was intended as a private letter, but we saw a request on the back of it to return it if not published. We wrote a letter in reply to the brother, but have decided to publish both. ELDER C. H. CAYCE:
Dear Brother in Christ-I have been a member of the Primitive Baptist Church now for only about a year, having come from the Missionaries, and have been a subscriber for your paper about the same length of time, and had begun to like it fine. I also read with interest your debate with Penick. Today I received your proposition of paying for the PRIMITIVE in advance and getting the paper at one dollar a year, and was just about to send you two dollars to apply on same when I read your editorial in answer to Sister Georgia Townsend's letter, as published in THE PRIMITIVE BAPTIST of December 7. which caused a halt in my intention. I just thought if you are going to publish a paper and light on the ideas and doctrines of brethren, as you have done in this editorial, I just simply did not want the paper. It seems to toe that an editor who takes such an active part on such mooted questions as the absolute predestination of all things that come to pass or conditional time salvation, etc., etc., is entirely out of his place. At least, that is the way it looks to me. Do you know that there are as good, honest, brethren who believe, honestly, in the absolute predestination of all things as there are in the church anywhere? As for myself, I have remained neutral so far with regard to the subject, but from the facts I have gathered from the teachings of God's word I have about come to the conclusion that if God works all things after the counsel of His own will, then man has no will in the matter. And He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. Not only that, but He has a purpose in all He does. Then you break out with oh, horror of horrors at what you are pleased to term “the heathenish and infidel saying, whatever is, is right,” as if our Bible does not say “The God of all the earth will do right.” Of course there is a whole lot about what God does and why He does it that we do not understand, but is that an excuse for us saying that God does not work all things (and not only some things) after the counsel of His own will? I trow not. You yourself must admit that God did predestinate some of the most wicked things that ever come to pass on this earth-witness Pharaoh. “For this cause I have raised thee up;” and Joseph, “As for you, ye thought evil against me, but God meant it unto good to bring to pass as it is this day, to save much people alive;” and then the most atrocious crime ever committed in this world, crucifying of the Son of God. Will you dare say that was not predestinated? “Father, if it be possible let this cup pass, yet not my will but thine be done.”
No, Brother Cayce, I don't fault you for what you believe on this great question; no, nor any other brother; but I do think you ought not write such strong editorials and take such strong sides against what brethren honestly believe. I do wish brethren could bear with one another and be charitable, for we are all fallible and liable to err. May God be with the dear brethren every where, is my prayer. W. H. NOSLER.
OUR REPLY W. H. NOSLER: Dear Brother-Please pardon the long delay in writing you since we received yours of Dec. 15th. We have been away from home part of the time, and have been so busy with other matters that we have answered very few letters. If you do not take THE PRIMITIVE BAPTIST because we speak out plainly on what we deem fundamental points of doctrine, we will have to lose your name from the list. We would not shun what we believe to be the truth if it costs every subscriber on the list. The truth is what we want, paper or no paper. A man who will not speak out is not faithful to his trust. We are aware that there are some good honest brethren who believe in the predestination of all things that come to pass-good and evil alike-and so much the worse. If no good brethren were deceived by it we would not be so much concerned about the matter. But as this is the case we feel the responsibility resting upon us to speak out against it. God works all things, that He does work, after the counsel of His own will. If you will read (Jeremiah 7:31) and (Jeremiah 5) and (Jeremiah 32:35) you will find one thing God did not predestinate. It is true God always does His will, but we do not. God always does right, but men don't do right in committing murder, theft, rape, robbery and other crimes.
You say you think we should not write such strong editorials and take such strong sides against what brethren honestly believe. According to that, if a brother honestly imbibes the rankest principles of Arminianism or Catholicism, we should not take a strong stand against it because the brother honestly believes it. Every mouth mustbe stopped from speaking against false doctrine, on that principle, and every pen laid aside and no writing be done against any false way. If it is right to oppose a false way at all, it is right to oppose it strongly. But why do you say we should not take a strong stand? Do you not tell us that God works everything? Then God worked this, and we had nothing whatever to do with it, for you say man has no will in the matter. Why not make your complaint to God? You say He works it all. According to your position, God absolutely and unconditionally predestinated from all eternity that we should write every word we did write, and we could not possibly have done otherwise. By the help of the Lord we expect to speak and write against every false way, as we understand it to be our duty, while the Lord spares our natural life. And may He lead all His children out of every false way, is our humble prayer. C.H.C.
